From the latest poll on What They Play this week...
Not to keep banging on about this, but W.T.F?
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From the latest poll on What They Play this week...
Not to keep banging on about this, but W.T.F?
59 comments:
What if you gave the option of:
-Two decapitated, f-bomb spewing, mens' heads kissing?
Then what would they say?
People are weird.
What a strange society we live in. How does the saying go...Make war, not love?
Welcome to the US of A. Sex is taboo, violence not as much
Well I know that if I saw two men kissing, I'd undoubtedly start severing heads, so that's obviously the concern there.
People in this country piss me off some times.
Well there goes my plan to design a Queer as Folk game.
A. Not a scientifically conducted poll, not really valid enough to even get offended.
B. I didn't see an option that says "I'm not offended by any of these." Because of this, only people that are offended will choose, even if it's minuscule offense.
America's mores are screwed up. But this isn't really evidence of that.
Puritans obviously loved violence since that's where this countries skewed morality seems to stem from.
The easiest way to change things here is to raise your own kids with morals skewed the other way. That's what I'm doing (two kids, 14 & 17).
Wow...
The US never ceases to amaze me. Are attitudes toward sex really this, Dare I say, grotesque over there?
I mean, parents object more to their kids seeing two guys kissing in a videogame than they object to their kids seeing severed heads? Not to mention hetero-sex. Really?
oh people...
I would have voted for two men kissing over graphic head removal. I have nothing against gay people, I used to have a gay friend. But, seeing that is nasty. Even the thought of it is disgusting. Maybe my opinion will change when I become a parent.
It's a question of what you are more offended by in a videogame. I'm sure the parents would prefer games without severed heads or homosexual themes. Violence has been a part of human history much longer than homosexuality so I'm not that surprised.
I saw this dozens of times a day when I was managing a retail video game chain store. Parents would ask me (usually moms) "is this game 'bad'?" and I'd go "well, yeah, it's a WWII game so there's people getting shot in the head and stuff like that". And without even pausing the response would be "Oh, no, no, that's fine. Great! I was worried he might be looking at naked women or something."
At the point I stopped caring about getting fired I would always ask "REALLY? You think your child will be more psychologically damaged by seeing a naked woman than extreme violence?" That would usually stun them for 15 seconds and say "yeah...I...I guess so."
@ kurt
i think homesexuality has been a part of human history as much as violence.
homesexuality is not a new phenomenon.
To the last Anonymous poster, who finds two men kissing 'nasty' - why? Why do you let it effect you like that? Dwell on that for awhile.
As a gay man, I'm wired differently and it's biological to me, so it doesn't offend me. One view to bring up is - I don't get grossed out by seeing a man and woman kiss - but that's mainstream society's view ingrained in me, so it probably isn't a valid argument.
So for arguments sake: I don't think two women making out is nasty. Doesn't do anything for me, but it doesn't upset me, why should it? It's not me doing the kissing, so why should seeing it bother me in a video game?
Of course for many straight guys, two women kissing is perfectly acceptable pornography, so I suppose there's no way to win this argument and get you too think deeper about why you feel the way you do.
Mike (pub'd as anon, cos i'm too lazy to look up my blogger name/pass)
@Kurt: LOLSVILLE!!!!
That's just like saying homosexuality isn't natural. History and Science wins out on that one. Homosexuality dates back to ancient civilizations, and was far more accepted than, then it seems to be now. And for the nature bit - it happens all the time in animals, amphibians, etc, etc..
Goddamn gays and their kissing.
Just kidding. I am a homosexual.
Just because something has happened throughout history doesn't make it "natural". You are forgetting that people have free wills. I'm sure ancient Greek soldiers and the like could have chosen to not take young boys to battle with them. Today's soldiers don't do that. I doubt that they would even if it was legal.
There are two reasons it offends some of us to see the two men. Some are offended just because it isn't in keeping with their own preferences. Others (perhaps the majority of those who were offended) are offended because of the fact a large percentage of Americans adhere to the biblical Judeo-Christian view of homosexuality as being a sinful thing. Why do these results surprise anyone? You know that America is full of Christians. You may as well be surprised that a lot of people in Alaska wear heavy coats.
"Others (perhaps the majority of those who were offended) are offended because of the fact a large percentage of Americans adhere to the biblical Judeo-Christian view of homosexuality as being a sinful thing. Why do these results surprise anyone?"
It's a choice to bring young boys into battle for sexual pleasure just as it is a choice as to your religion.
Please just don't let it impede the free will of others. It's terribly annoying. In fact I'd much rather see severed heads in my video games than preaching.
"a large percentage of Americans adhere to the biblical Judeo-Christian view of homosexuality as being a sinful thing."
But severing heads is not a sinful thing? I'm not completely negating your point--I actually share that Judeo-Christian view of homosexuality--but the double standard whereby sex (which can be good) is somehow a worse sin than violence (which is never good) bothers me more than a little.
On the other hand, I'm not really offended by any of those things being in video games. In fact, I found it profoundly weird that in both of Bioware's last two games (Mass Effect & Jade Empire) you could have hetero and lesbian relationships, but not gay (male) ones.
would be cooler if you shared the number of responses you've gotten for the poll.
"Just because something has happened throughout history doesn't make it "natural"."
Just because something is uncommon does not make it unnatural. There are examples of homosexuality in nature and always have been. You need to brush off your dictionary if you want to start defining words for other people.
I'm as big a fan of violent games as the next male of the Doom generation; but I would never say that a society where sex between consenting adults is seen as acceptable entertainment material, and violence and crime is seen as totally abhorrent would be worse.
Surely a game where all your guy Sims can Woo-hoo the hell out of each other is far more logically morally acceptable than a game based on a film about violent organised crime?
But noone ever claimed the moral majority was logical.
As an aside, my first experience with American network TV standards was watching the Shining at around 11pm. The only thing that was censored was about 2 seconds of a woman getting out of a bath. They'd blurred her all out.
Look out! Boobs! Ok, back to the murdering.
Needless to say, being European I found this hilarious.
"In fact, I found it profoundly weird that in both of Bioware's last two games (Mass Effect & Jade Empire) you could have hetero and lesbian relationships, but not gay (male) ones."
Did anyone else get the impression playing Mass Effect that at some point they had planned a M-M option but chickened out?
Some of the dialog with Kaiden/Carth was a little touchy feely for a straight dude. Although maybe they were just lazy with the dialog which was intended for the F character?
These are all offensive.
None of these add to gameplay.
"Just because something has happened throughout history doesn't make it "natural"."
I think you misread what I meant. While I meant historically, in the societal sense, I meant natural in the "nature" sense. As it occurs naturally in other beings aside from Humans.
"You are forgetting that people have free wills. I'm sure ancient Greek soldiers and the like could have chosen to not take young boys to battle with them. Today's soldiers don't do that. I doubt that they would even if it was legal."
Why does every discussion regarding this relate back to examples of bestiality and pedophilia? I'm gay, I don't wanna have sex with kids or animals. And you really think me being gay is apart of my free will? Yeah, I CHOSE to agonize myself internally for years in finding away to tell my family. I CHOSE to put myself through depression. I CHOSE to be apart of one the most hated "communities" in our society's history. I CHOSE to be persecuted by people who CHOSE to believe a book written by men, and translated over and over.
Don't get me wrong, I was raised religious (Lutheran), and I still have some connections to my faith, I believe in a higher being, God, if you will. But I think it's funny in the persecution of the homosexual 'lifestyle' - that all the other things God did, such as create all of to be equal and in his image, is glossed over so that you can cast me down in whatever way you feel appropriate. It's funny how judging others has become a CHRISTIAN ideal in today's world, when that was supposed to be God's duty.
"Some are offended just because it isn't in keeping with their own preferences."
Maybe it's because being homosexual has made me an open-minded individual, but you don't see me being offended by heterosexual or lesbians kissing?
"Yeah, I CHOSE to agonize myself internally for years in finding away to tell my family. I CHOSE to put myself through depression. I CHOSE to be apart of one the most hated "communities" in our society's history. I CHOSE to be persecuted by people who CHOSE to believe a book written by men, and translated over and over."
Maybe you didn't choose to do any of these things, but that doesn't mean the feelings you have are natural feelings. Satan is a deceiver. No offense to you, but when a person has been deceived, they don't know that they've been deceived. Satan can put those thoughts in one's head and make them seem completely natural. That doesn't mean they are natural though.
@ the anonymous who left a comment at 11:57
First off, yes you do choose to do all that. Just because you have feelings a certain way, and believe that you are homosexual doesn't mean that you have to follow those feelings. For example: Lets say that someone is really ticking you off, and sends you over the edge into extreme anger. You may feel an insane urge to beat the living daylights out of this guy, but that doesn't mean you have to. It is just a feeling, which is built into the sin nature of man. You always have a choice.
Second of all, the Bible, which I believe was what you said was written by man, actually wasn't. If by written you mean coming up with the ideas and words on the pages, and not just copying them down, then God actually wrote the Bible. God dictated the entire Bible to others who just copied his exact words onto the pages.
What a strange society we live in.
I would like to see sex in a game and People are weird. America's mores are screwed up then anyone else.
Steven, you're going to reach a roadblock when you start arguing logic with biblical ideas. Sure, you may be of the opinion that the bible was written by God, but don't use that as an argument against someone who doesn't buy it or else you're going nowhere.
@Mike
Why is it nasty to me? I don't know why. There's no specific reason behind. Sure, maybe it's the society we live in. I guess I'm wired that way just like the way you were wired. I do however find it weird that I can't watch two guys kissing but two girls is great pornography. It's kind of weird but thats just the way people are born...Different
This is really interesting.
Personally, I think sexual issues aren't something we should stop our kids from seeing... on the same note, violence is a real world thing also.
I can't believe people are still so uptight about sex.
"Maybe you didn't choose to do any of these things, but that doesn't mean the feelings you have are natural feelings. Satan is a deceiver. No offense to you, but when a person has been deceived, they don't know that they've been deceived. Satan can put those thoughts in one's head and make them seem completely natural. That doesn't mean they are natural though."
So please explain how Satan didn't actually write the Bible and how Satan doesn't actually control all major organized religion on Earth? He's deceiving you, but you don't know you've been deceived! Believing God is behind all this seems completely natural to you, right?
"Why is it nasty to me? I don't know why. There's no specific reason behind. Sure, maybe it's the society we live in. I guess I'm wired that way just like the way you were wired. I do however find it weird that I can't watch two guys kissing but two girls is great pornography. It's kind of weird but thats just the way people are born...Different"
That's just it, we're all different. That's not a bad thing, and yet so many others (not saying you) take issue if they don't have the same beliefs in place. There is no overall correct belief system. But some would rather bring others down, than just accept and love each other for who they are.
@Steve: your logic is dated. I might as well just commit myself to old-school electroshock therapy for your sake, ay?
There is only one choice in homosexuality - you either accept it and live your life, or you deny it, and live your life. The results will vary, depending on the person. But is it any wonder that 1/3rd of all teenage suicide is due to coming to terms with sexuality in a society that wants to persecute them?
All I want is to be allowed to LOVE someone without having the fear of my head bashed in if I walk down the street doing something as innocent as holding hands. I'm idealistic, but I know that will likely not happen in my lifetime.
Shouldn't 'Christians' be more offended by violence, and- while I'm at it- poverty? The Bible, -especially- the New Testament, spends a whoooooooole lot more time ranting about the plight of the poor and the blight of war way, way more than condemning the actions of consenting adults.
Maybe Satan deceived us into choosing an electorate that rolls back every environmental protection (hey, aren't we the stewards of this thing?) and recreates the largest wealth gap (isn't being rich far more likely to keep you from entering Heaven than not doing everything you can to stop two people you don't know from having insurance/social security benefits? Something about a camel and an eye of a needle?) in our nation's history and slashes veteran's benefits by distracting us with divisive 'social' issues in the guise of an unprecedented liberty -restricting- Constitutional amendment?
"Satan can put those thoughts in one's head"
I've got news for you: that's called schizophrenia, and it can be treated.
Well, godwin's law... NAZIS.
Sex (heterosexual or homosexual) is something in the real world, as is violence, and cursing, and what many of you consider sins.
Why hide any of them?
I am so sick of these pig-headed "puritan America" remarks! Violence is worse than sex in real life, no one is disputing that. But sex is worse than violence in media because it can affect people. Look, no one in their right mind would go out and kill someone after doing it a game or seeing it in a movie, but nearly any male would become sexually aroused by sex or nudity. Now a person could make the "well what's wrong with sex, it's natural" argument, but then you would be dodging the issue of what you would want you're children exposed to; something that would affect them, or something that wouldn't. And besides, the most wide spread and hardest addictions to get rid of are the sexual kinds, and they lead to many more social ills then violence (adultery, STD's, divorce, misogyny, etc.) and to the very worst crimes in society. Just ask anyone involved in the rehab business.
Everyone wants to pretend the gays don't exist until it happens to their child.
Snap out of your mullet fantasia.
If you haven't discussed a variety of aspects of human sexuality in a neutral or positive way with your child before they hit puberty then you fail as a parent.
Dunks, Australia
I have the perfect solution.
You buy your children all the violent videogames you want and I'll watch Link get it on with Gannondorf.
Sorry, I disagree with the poll...2 men kissing would be the worst! I play games to escape reality and crappy politics..not to have gayness forced on me by having to see that. Sorry, but there's a political side to it pure and dimple.once that's accepted Mario and Luigi could take on a completely different meaning.
"they lead to many more social ills then violence (adultery, STD's, divorce, misogyny, etc.) and to the very worst crimes in society"
No, I'm very sure if STDs were shown graphically in games it would benefit our society. Let's rethink game development.
"2 men kissing would be the worst! I play games to escape reality and crappy politics..not to have gayness forced on me by having to see that."
Just, um, don't buy the game then? I'm sure **good** christians don't make a habit of buying any T or M games. I personally don't buy games with guys and girls kissing (UGH VOMIT).
Well, I find games with Christianity-sponsored violence towards homosexuals to be the most offensive. Severed heads or any other kind.
Guess I won't be buying those disgusting "Left Behind" Dominionist propaganda games. Oh well.
- A Gamer Lesbian. No, you can't watch me and my girlfriend kiss. We're in an instance right now.
So, according to that poll, it should be perfectly okay, if I was maiming a body, and my kid accidentaly walked in on me. Bot not if I was having sex with my wife??
Yeah, that makes perfect sense... @_@
Everyone that voted it a (unt! There I said it!
So if my kid walks in on me and my wife having sex, it would actually have been better if he had walked in on me cutting off her head? Those extreme christians freak me out more than terrorists, cause lots of people listen to them.
American attitudes toward sex and violence, and their depiction in the media, are based in historical attitudes brought over by various waves of English settlers:
- A horrific loathing of bodily pleasure, a lot of which is based in misogyny -- remember, the xtian tradition always considered women more "embodied," with weaker minds and "spirits," than they did men.
- Indifference to at best, and acceptance of at worst, casual violence as a way of "solving problem" -- and, more specifically, to "preserve the social order" (i.e., keep them uppity wimminz/homoseckshualz/cullud people/heathens in line).
When the fundies start bleating about how sex is saaaay-kred, they're full of it.
They're terrified of sex, because it's all about the body and it reminds them that they're mortal. The ones with strong libidos are the worst, because despite their belief that they should "control themselves," they can't -- and that's why they want laws enacted to prevent people from having sex unless they're married and "trying for a child." They project their prudery and their "lack of willpower" onto other people.
What, no one gets angry when a game has crappy plot terrible gameplay and was a waste of money because of it? You people are such tools. A game can have as much sex violence or gay men kissing as the game designers please but if it's gameplay sucks and the plot is boring, why play?
Funny how in the USA sex is worse than violence whereas in Europe it is the other way around
Apparently bashing Christianity is becoming a new trend now, I find it hypocrite how someone who isn't a Christian talks about discrimination and then starts saying how Christians are the reasons for today's all prejudices, which I can see why they think like that, but isn't that discrimination as well? guess what not everyone is like that, I'm Catholic and we don't think homosexuality is a sin (as long as they don't force it upon others) because it isn't a persons fault to be like that.
Also it's so funny how the question actually reads "Two men kissing" and not "Two Gay man kissing", people that picked that option would be completely grossed out if they went to Argentina or Russia (I think) where two men kissing in the mouth is a common greeting for close relatives.
Santander...hate to break it to you, but Catholics do believe homosexuality is a sin. Just ask the pope.
Sant Ander,
Catholicism says that homosexuality is a sin. What catechism class did YOU attend??
As for Christian bashing, let me clue you in on a little trend: that whole "Love your neighbor as yourself" thing that Jesus preached? It's been pissed on in favor of Paul's misogynistic, sex-fearing rantings that nowadays get passed off as the gospel of Christ. My ass. There's being Christlike, and then there's being Christian. These days the two seem to be mutually exclusive.
I'll stop Christian bashing when Christians stop bashing me. Literally. I've been harassed, verbally and physically attacked, and fired from my job just for being gay, with no legal recourse. If that happens to a Christian, they can sue in federal court. A law-abiding, taxpaying dyke like me has nowhere to turn. All because of the good Christian love that runs this country. IMO Christians deserve the bad name they're finally getting; they've brought it on themselves with their self-righteousness, their holier-than-thou sermons, their endless hate, their endorsement of thugs like Jerry Falwell (may he rot in hell) as their mouthpieces, their campaign money to enshrine hate in the Constitution. Screw you all. You did this to yourselves. Bed. Made. Lie. After all the hell you GOOD CHRISTIANS have personally put me through, I dare you to tell me my anger and bitterness is unjustified.
And believe me, if I had a decent way to emigrate to the Netherlands where I'd be welcome, I would. As it is, I have no choice but to suck it up and try to make things better in the USA. Leaving the City on a Hill to the mouthbreathing Paulines ain't so easy as you all would like it to be.
You want to show the goodness of Christ? Be nice to us. Show us some human dignity, in front of your other Christian friends. Encourage them to show the love of Christ, who hung out with sinners, and whores, and Samaritans even though the Jewish community shunned him for it. Advocate for simple human decency and equal treatment for all, the same as Christ did.
But if you're not willing to lower yourself to do that, then shut your yap about the hypocrisy and trendiness of Christian bashing. Go piss up a rope. It's laughable that you call Christian bashing hypocritical. In my circles we call it being truthful.
Have a nice day up on that pedestal. Be careful not to fall down.
- Gamer Lesbian
You know my dog is gay so I really don’t have a problem with gays. If God makes gay animals I am sure he makes gay people too.
And seriously, I don’t think God is the asshole some of you make him out to be. Just remember, “the good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks.” Perhaps you should head our Savior’s words before going about casting stones upon your brothers and sisters. Just a thought...
Ya know, if we're going to talk about unnatural acts let me just point out that a girl giving a guy a blow job serves about zero reproductive use but you can damn me to hell if I'm going to stop enjoying getting them from my girlfriend!
Santander, which I presume to be an european, is wrong in two main points: On chatolic morality (which is very curious, beeing him chatolic...) and on europeans.
The first one has been explained by previous comentators. The second is similar to other comments here, and it assumes that us europeans are a kind of breed apart, superiors in our high moral and cultural grounds... That is a wrongfull, generalist and maniqueist conclusion, and we have a lot more in common with the americans than some of us would wish to admit. I don't really take the poll very serious, but I have no doubt that the results would not be very different in Europe. It mostly shows a trend in western societies (and the rest of the world, as it becomes more and more "westernized") towards the banalization of violence in media and games.
But both in America and Europe, there's lot's of people who don't think and act that way.
its amazing that it bothers them when 2 men kiss but when 2 woman kiss its ok! WTF
Why is everyone so damned shocked? Violence and cruelty have always been acceptable in every society. All you have to do is dehumanize the other, and away we go. Dehumanizing people in other social classes, in the next village/region/state, has been the rule.
Historically, we are at an all time low for violence worldwide, especially warfare. The whole notion of equality, and of people on the other side of the globe having worth, is a very recent development.
Sex, otoh, is truly powerful, and must be controlled. All memes have evolved with this fact in mind, which is why every culture and religion has prohibitions and instructions over it.
Btw, all of the comments on homosexuality on this page have made all of the Google Adsense serve up gay ads (at least to me). LOL.
entaroadum: Yes, you definittely have a point there. It reminded me of a talk from Steven Pinker:
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/163
If you look at teh historical great picture, you're both right.
I know your comment had nothing to do with mine, but I just want to clear that I was refering to the presence of violence (and sex, for that matter) in the media, from video games to TV. It's more a matter of the representation of violence, not violence it itself. That said, and reconizing that real violence has been decresing along the centuries, yes, we still are one of the most ferocious and cruel species on earth. Not all of us, and not all in the same degree, certainly, but enough of us to make a pretty good mess...
And the fascination with violent entertainment has been with us way before the bloodbath shows in the roman Colisseum, 2000 years ago.
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